Thank you again for your promptness and discussion in our meeting yesterday on Module 2: Delayed Consequences. For our next meeting on September 23 from 3:15-4pm in the Office Conference Room there are two things we would like you to complete. First, please be sure to have read and written down a few notes on the two remaining readings for the module, Readings 2.2 and 2.3. We will discuss those as part of our next session. Also, please reflect and discuss in the comment section below a response to the following prompts:
1) On the second page of Reading 2.1, the author notes, "The next time a student does something inappropriate, experiment by saying very softly, Oh, no. This is sad. I'm going to have to do something about this! But not now...later...try not to worry about it." Is this realistic in the classroom? Have you ever experimented with a response like this? Is there something similar that you have found that works just as well? Please share your thoughts and experience.
2) I really enjoyed the final paragraph of Reading 2.1. Share your thoughts on the paragraph after rereading the short section and ultimately answering the question, what then becomes important in our teaching when it comes to consequences and discipline?
1) I've tried "Please see me after class" before. However, kids aren't dumb enough to stay and remind me that I need to see them. So I've forgotten a couple of times. A couple of times, however, the student has done poorly on the next quiz/test. It gave me a chance to speak with them privately and talk about how their actions ultimately hurt them.
ReplyDelete2) How I look at this is not to make idol threats. I think by using this technique, we are saving ourselves from doing just that. We've all forgotten about a disciplinary action that we took a mental note of and life went on. If we would have given them a consequence and then forgotten about it, that would give the message that we really don't care about the action. Consistency if very important. If we say we are going to do something, we should follow through.
1). Delayed consequences and, don't worry about it, are phrases that don't work real well with students on the autism spectrum. They tend to perseverate to the point where they are unable to do anything else, and that perseveration can often to lead to increased unwanted behaviors. I have found it best to give them a period without any stimulation and then discuss actions and possible consequences when they are back to a clam state.
ReplyDelete2). I will say that consistency is essential when working with students on the autism spectrum. My number one pet peeve when I am out dining is the booth next to me where a young child is misbehaving and all I hear from the parents is "do this or we're..." and yet a whole dinner passes with the misbehavior and the "or" consequence never happens.
I have done a version of this in my classroom where I have told the student I will talk to them later about their misbehavior. This gives us a chance to discuss what happened. I get their side of the story, and they get to hear my point of view. I think this can be effecive becuase sometimes there is more to the story. Plus, you are sending a message to kids that I care about you and this is about more than just the punishemnt.
ReplyDelete2. I say follow through is very important. There have been times where I have told a kid I am going to do something, but then something comes up and I forget. So if you tell the kids that you will talk to them later, you better remember. As we all know, they catch on quickly, espiecailly if you forget a lot:)
So I think I had my first meaningful experience of love and logic over the last two days...
ReplyDeleteOne student has been acting distruptively, not focusing, distracting others, etc. on a daily basis and I was getting extremely frustrated. Simply, this student put me over the edge with my patience. Other students could tell I was frustrated and stressed and my initial approach with the distracting student was not working (ulitmately I should have removed the student, but chose not to). I wanted an immediate consequence but was too worked up to reason through anything effectively. So the next day, I approached the student and said, "yesterday's behavior in class was unexceptable and if it continues today I am going to have to remove you from class" (in a very sincere voice). That class period, the student's attitude was much better and he had minimal distractions. If I only would have tried that approach earlier... The student knew the consequences before class started and therefore I didn't have to let his actions reach an unmanageable boiling point.
Now, I don't know how much of what I just mentioned answered the Blog Post questions, but I think it relates to what we've been discussing so far.
1. I took the opportunity to use this phrase in class on Monday. One of my students began to complain loudly about the lesson. At first, I tried to ignore it but he continued. I began to feel very aggitated and was tempted to make a sarcastic comment back. Then I remembered this phrase and I said "I am sorry you feel this way but it is not appropriate for you to make those comments in class. I'm going to have to do something about this. But not now...later...try not to worry about it." His eyes got so big and he was quiet for the remainder of the class. The number one reason I used this was because I really didn't know what to do and I could feel myself getting more upset. It ended up working out great. Later on when I saw the student I told him I what I was going to do about it. I have students complete a Life and Career Skills sheet daily assessing these skills. So I told him that when he complained about the class he was not demonstrating the skill of teamwork. He asked me why and I showed him what I had written "student makes positive contribution to small and large group activities". This seemed to satisfy him and he agreed. I know that if I would have said the same thing in the heat of the moment in front of the entire class, I would have invited a huge power struggle and would have heard many of the same comments I was already getting (this is gay, this is stupid etc...). This worked so well that I tried it again with another student that was sleeping in class. I got the same results.
ReplyDelete2. I think that consequences need to "fit the crime" and "address the individual situation". Over all, I think it is extremely important that consequences are not delivered out of anger or frustration. It should be very clear who is displaying the inappropriate behavior if an outsider walked in while the behavior is being addressed. I also think that the purpose of discipline and consequences is to teach students to become responsible and self disciplined, not to comply out of fear.
1. I have used this approach and seems to work for some of my students. I used it on a student today because I needed to speak with several people about how realistic the consequence could be...before I explained to her what would happen, I wanted to make sure it was enforceable. This worked well with her and she got to work like she needed to after I was done talking to her. I think this can be a powerful tool in helping students to reflect on what they have done as well as give you time to ensure consequences are appropriate and enforceable. However, there are students who will not be able to get past the thought of a consequence and will obsess about what will happen as Laura said in her response which makes it difficult and sometimes impossible to continue with any meaningful instruction.
ReplyDelete2. The delayed consequences gives us an important tool...the time to evaluate the situation as well as the most appropriate and enforceable consequences. When we dole out consequences in the heat of the moment there is a higher likelihood that they may be difficult to enforce or inappropriate for the function of that behavior. We may also make things more difficult for ourselves because we have not thought through the holes in our logic or consequence. I also agree that it is important to be consistent and follow through with what you say. If you are telling a student you will get back to them and that you have to do something, that does not pigeonhole you into a specific consequence...it gives you the time to be able to think about how you can be consistent and come up with a meaningful and appropriate consequence you can follow through with.
1) This is realistic with some students in the classroom. In the spirit of recongnising that all kids are differrent, approaches have to also be different. While I can use this approach at home with my son, I would have to be VERY careful using it with my daughter, who suffers from a significant anxiety disorder. Laura hit it with ASD and their inability to "put it away". With these students (or students like my daughter who have anxiety issues), the consequence should be less delayed or they may even be cruel.
ReplyDelete2) What strikes me the most with delayed consequence is the absolute need to find a way to not forget. A forgotten consequence turns us into liars very quickly. If this is a method of choice, one must posess either a strong memory, or excellent organizational skills. A few years back, my son's class got in trouble and recieved the group punishment (a concept I HATE) of staying in during their next recess. Unfortunately, the class got in trouble late on a Friday, so the next recess was two full days away. When I asked my son how he felt about it, he said "it's ok, she will forget anyway." He was absolutely right! She forgot, and even at five years old he predicted she would because of previous behaviors.
1) Interestingly enough, I commented on in this in my last post for the previous lesson. At the time I didn't realize that my comment would relate to this lesson. While I have had success using this technique in the past, I do not believe that it can work for all students. I agree with Amy in that we need to realize that just as students differ in their learning styles, they will also differ in the way that they react/respond to disciplne /consequences. I also think it is important to determine the context, environment, and potential outcomes of the the behavior when it occurs. Some situations must be dealt with swiftly, with no delay in consequences, regardless of how the student may react. For example, if someone wilfully violates a safety rule in my welding lab that puts themselves or others at risk, I believe that it must be dealt with swifty because of the potential consequences/outcome of the behavior.
ReplyDelete2) I belive that regardless of the consequence I may give a student, the most important thing that I must do is follow through on what I say that I will do. If I do not "walk the talk", I will impinge upon my own credibility. Once lost, credibility is one of the most difficult things to re-establish, and in some cases almost impossible to retrieve. Our credibility with our students is vital; we work hard to to get it and it permeates everything that we do. It affects our individual relationships with our students, and our effectiveness in the classroom. It extends well beyond discipline and consequences. When we say we will be somewhere at a certain time, or say we will be available to answer questions or offer help, or simply say that we will give a student our undivided attention when they are speaking to us, we need to MAKE IT HAPPEN. Otherwise, students learn early on that the words we speak are empty and hollow.
okay...
...off my soap box now.